bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457 
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Mar 11, 2021 10:02:47 GMT -5
I called Huntingtons's yesterday to get an extended shell holder and was told to call RCBS directly as they (Huntington's) had none and were not able to get any. I called RCBS and got what I needed but, the bad news, I was lucky as they only one and only had very few of any left. RCBS is no longe producing their Competition seating die sets which follows along with no more Custom dies. The Bean Counters are at it again!!  |
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SnapShot
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Jeep & Mocha "Remembering Patches, always"
Posts: 699
Location: Finally free from the Republic of Kalifornia!
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Post by SnapShot on Mar 11, 2021 13:02:45 GMT -5
Now that's what I call bad news! I sure hope this isn't the beginning fo the end.  |
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Mar 11, 2021 16:16:24 GMT -5
Snapshot, you've got the wrong message I'm afraid.... The competition dies are two versions old. They have the Gold Medal Dies, and now the MatchMaster dies. The competition dies are being cleaned out. The Matchmaster Dies are nearly the same as the Gold Medal dies and both are superior to the old competition dies....especially the seaters.
As for the extended shell holders, the new dies don't need or use them except I think for a couple of really small calibers.
They still have some competitions, but for how long I don't know. My engineer friend told me that 3 lines of competitions dies are too much...so the originals are prices to sell and then they are gone. RCBS itself isn't in trouble....they are just updating and improving products.
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Mar 11, 2021 20:10:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the more comforting information Greg. The sales folks didn't mention the newer dies and I do need and use the extended shell holders to make use of my dies especially the .22s and the Mauser and .308 based cartridges. Hopefully the match dies will work around the shorter cases.
I really like the "window" for the .22s and all in all my dies produce cartridges with bullet run out around 0.002" or less most all of the time. I wonder what the difference is in seater, fortunately I have what I need from .22 through .32 .
They did however drop the Custom dies some time ago probably to encourage the bushing sizer.
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Mar 12, 2021 1:21:12 GMT -5
I've never bought a custom die.....and I understand that that part of the business just wasn't worth the trouble as it was not used that much and when it was it wasn't at all profitable. I use .223 and .308 Gold Medal sets on my progressive and really like them.....as you mention they are very concentric about sizing and seating. I also love the windows. In my pre-collator years they beat the hell out of mashing fingers trying to feed bullets in the progressive merry-go-round. Probably not coordinated enough I guess.
But even on the Rock Chucker, the Gold Medal and MatchMaster dies use regular case holders except for like the .22 Hornet....and I don't understand the reason why.
I have a couple of bushing sizers.....they make concentric ammo quite well. But that's new to my experience. One neat thing about the seven station progressive is that there are enough stations that I can use a cheap sizer on it by removing the ball expander....then in station 2, I use an "M" style neck expander makes a pocket that sorta preseats the bullets a 16th under the feed die, rotates to the seater, and never moves or tilts....and that's a great improvement in speed and concentricity, both, using a progressive.......IOW's I can finally make ammo on a progressive every bit as accurate as on a single stage.
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050
Location: New Hamster
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Post by poohzilla on Mar 12, 2021 7:22:16 GMT -5
Interesting development-not particularly surprising. If I were in the industry, I think I'd be looking for what lines were performing prior to the nasty ick, and put my efforts there. A good chance to streamline and get to the lower inventories everyone is looking to maintain these days. Thanks to all for pointing that all out. If nothing else, may be time to shop for an extended shell holder !
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Mar 13, 2021 12:58:38 GMT -5
Greg, not wanting to be adversarial I'm curious as to why the Match Master and or Gold Cup dies are superior to the older Competition dies. Outwardly the M.M. dies do look different but unless they have a substantially increased range internally, which is likely, they will still need the extended shell holder because the ram can't enter the die. The G.C. dies were produced along with the Comp. dies and I was under the impression the G.C. dies were about equal to the Comp. dies which have been great for me.
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Mar 13, 2021 18:09:16 GMT -5
All three are good dies...didn't mean to insinuate that they weren't. Each time just little improvements. One thing I remember about the competition line is that they didn't hold on to the bullets as well. You may correct me as you are a user and I'm not, having been talked out of them for that reason and assured by RCBS that the G. M. line retained the bullets after dropping them......I think the competition seaters dropped them onto the cases and so if for any reason you lowered the ram the bullet dropped with the case....before it was seated.....G.M.'s retained them until you seated them. Yes or no? The next line may explain why that even matters.....a progressive thing. The main factor for me choosing the G.M. line was simply that they were made for the Progressives and I had just set up a Pro 2000.....that means shell plates and not shell holders, which makes a big difference as they no longer needed the long shell holders. They sure don't make tall shell plates of any kind.  What I said about the small .22's like the Hornets is pass-on info I read in the G.M. die instructions. I really don't know anything about seaters of the sort that require long shell holders. Never owned one or seen one work.....maybe you can educate me on that. I would venture a guess that the small hornets and such wouldn't work on the progressive since they still need raised shell holders? Now with my first rifle bullet feeder, I don't even use the open bullet drop and a found so wonderful on the Pro 2000....they are already stuck to the cases when it revolves to the seater station on the Pro Chucker 7. Spoiled for sure now.... |
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Mar 13, 2021 20:28:53 GMT -5
Greg, you are quite right the competition dies don't hold the bullet it will drop through which, for me, isn't an issue with my single stage presses and their instructions even say not to use on a progressive press. I wonder how the G.M. and M.M. dies retain the bullet yet let it go for seating. The newer dies must be longer as my dies bottom out before seating the bullet especially the Hornets and Bee. When I first got the Comp. dies I was looking for .300 Winchester die the RCBS representative suggested I get a .308 set as it came with the extender which I could use with the .243, .257 and the 7X57mm with the appropriate seating bushing and plug. Now I will have to try it with out the extended holder and see what happens.
Thanks for the information
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gws
Member
Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Mar 13, 2021 23:14:18 GMT -5
All three are good dies...didn't mean to insinuate that they weren't. Each time just little improvements. One thing I remember about the competition line is that they didn't hold on to the bullets as well. You may correct me as you are a user and I'm not, having been talked out of them for that reason and assured by RCBS that the G. M. line retained the bullets after dropping them......I think the competition seaters dropped them onto the cases and so if for any reason you lowered the ram the bullet dropped with the case....before it was seated.....G.M.'s retained them until you seated them. Yes or no? The next line may explain why that even matters.....a progressive thing. The main factor for me choosing the G.M. line was simply that they were made for the Progressives and I had just set up a Pro 2000.....that means shell plates and not shell holders, which makes a big difference as they no longer needed the long shell holders. They sure don't make tall shell plates of any kind. What I said about the small .22's like the Hornets is pass-on info I read in the G.M. die instructions. I really don't know anything about seaters of the sort that require long shell holders. Never owned one or seen one work.....maybe you can educate me on that. I would venture a guess that the small hornets and such wouldn't work on the progressive since they still need raised shell holders? Now with my first rifle bullet feeder, I don't even use the open bullet drop that I found so wonderful on the Pro 2000....as they are already stuck to the cases when it revolves to the seater station on the Pro Chucker 7. Spoiled for sure now.... |
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Mar 13, 2021 23:20:14 GMT -5
Oh, forgot to mention that my engineer acquaintance at RCBS was asked by me if the new MatchMaster seaters were something I needed to replace my Gold Medal Seaters with. He said, no. He didn't offer to explain.....which was interesting....maybe it's only cosmetic, I just don't know yet. I will say they are the prettiest dang dies I have ever seen..... Tempting for the wrong reason......I mean look at the picture again!  |
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What I said about the small .22's like the Hornets is pass-on info I read in the G.M. die instructions. I really don't know anything about seaters of the sort that require long shell holders. Never owned one or seen one work.....maybe you can educate me on that. I would venture a guess that the small hornets and such wouldn't work on the progressive since they still need raised shell holders?
My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
