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Post by erjdriver on Aug 23, 2014 21:59:22 GMT -5
Hey all, I'm starting to ramp up reloading for .38 Special. So today, I set up my press and loaded 50 rounds with (what I thought were) 158gr RNFP lead bullets, 3.6gr of Accurate #2 (minimum charge per Speer manual), and Winchester Small Pistol primers. After finishing those 50 rounds I cleaned everything up and started my quality control of measuring the COAL, checking the primer seat, crimp, etc. At a whim, I started weighing some of the bullets just for no reason (mildly OCD :  and found that the bullets really averaged closer to 150gr. So I contacted the gentleman I bought the bullets from (he owns/operates our shooting club) and he said there would be no problem loading them as 148gr. Question 1...are the 50 rounds I already put together overcharged or loaded too hot? Question 2...if these are closer to 150gr, can/should I use 148gr loading data? Question 3...does anyone have a formula for loading 150gr RNFP lead with Accurate #2 or Accurate #5? I'll be shooting these with a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum Model 686 with a 6" barrel, just for plinking metal targets, if that plays into this at all. Thanks for any and all advice.....I sent an e-mail to Accurate asking these same questions, so hopefully I'll get some feedback from them as well |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Aug 23, 2014 22:33:16 GMT -5
I had a big long sermon like post all typed out about quality. It was lost when I clicked the Post button and didn't realize my internet connection was lost. It's bedtime so instead of re-typing it all again I'm just going to say this. No matter the source of your bullets, weight at the beginning. Before you start loading! You wouldn't going flying without doing a walk around would you?
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Post by erjdriver on Aug 23, 2014 22:45:39 GMT -5
Ohhhhhh SNAP! You're right, of course. But let's get this straight.....the FIRST OFFICER is the one who does the walk around; I stay in the cool air conditioning.  Seriously though...In your opinion, are these rounds no good and I should pull them down? I have a guy on another forum saying they may be even too light of a load at 3.6gr for that bullet weight. |
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Post by hacker54 on Aug 23, 2014 23:41:29 GMT -5
erjdriver,
If you are in doubt then I would break'em down. You will find that most if not all data for a 148 grain would be for the wad cutters and they are light loads to begin with. Most manuals and other sources will give the advice if you have let's say a 150 grain and can't find data is to use the next weight up in the data. Some time ago I cast some bullets for 38/357 using a LEE mold that puts out a 150 grain SWC and the weight is calibrated to a 10 to 1 alloy. Well I was using wheel weight alloy and they were dropping at 152 to 153 +/- half grain either side of those weights. Well I found data for that weight for 38 spl and 357 mag for jacket but not lead. Did find for 357 in that weight in lead. So I looked in my Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and found for both 38 and 357 data for a 155 grain SWC and some of the powders on the list I use so game on.
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Aug 24, 2014 21:22:34 GMT -5
I'm still information deprived so I can't look up any load info. I realize it is the first officers job but it is your ass in that air conditioning flight deck. LOL
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457 
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Aug 24, 2014 23:28:59 GMT -5
erj: In looking at the data available my concern is the sams as the "outsider" they may be too light! In the name of safety I would pull them and start over. That said the first thing I do when I have a similar question is to telephone the powder manufacturer and the bullet maker and ask them.
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Post by erjdriver on Aug 25, 2014 13:20:50 GMT -5
erj: In looking at the data available my concern is the sams as the "outsider" they may be too light! In the name of safety I would pull them and start over. That said the first thing I do when I have a similar question is to telephone the powder manufacturer and the bullet maker and ask them. Thanks for the guidance, Bob. I did just that and sent a detailed e-mail to Accurate/Western Powders explaining exactly what had happened...loaded a 150gr lead RNFP bullet thinking it was 158gr, which is what I ordered from the gentleman that makes them (guess he pulled an "ooops"...won't be buying bullets from him again). Don, an Accurate rep, e-mailed back this morning with the following:
The load data from the 158gr (L) bullet will work for you.
.38 Special
Barrel: 7.75" ¦ Twist: 1-18.75" ¦ Primer: WIN WSP ¦ Bullet Diameter: 0.357"
Case: STAR ¦ Max Case Length: 1.155 " ¦ Trim Length: 1.145"
Accurate No. 2
158 (L) MCB SWC 3.6 764 4.0 868 14,100 1.481 42.0%
Accurate No. 5
158 (L) MCB SWC 5.3 827 5.9 940 16,100 1.481 42.6%
This is the exact load data from Version 5.0 of their online loading data guide, which is one of the reference sources I use when reloading with Accurate powder. This also confirms what others cited on the SIGforum board that if you don't have load data for a given bullet grain, then use the next highest. While I think this doesn't necessarily fit every circumstance, I feel confident that someone from Accurate has said what I loaded is fine. You can rest assure, though, that I'll test these rounds with only one bullet in the wheel house to see if it gets stuck in the barrel. Thankfully it's only 50 rounds and not 500!!  I know it's not true in EVERY case, but "in GENERAL", does it fit that the lighter the bullet weight, the more powder charge is required? Thanks again for everyone's guidance. Learned something on this one.....NEVER trust package labeling; trust but verify!!!!!  |
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Post by hacker54 on Aug 25, 2014 17:07:05 GMT -5
erjdriver,
As I stated they will tell you to go to the next weight up in data. Here is some data for Accurate #5 for a 155 grain LSWC from my copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.
Acc. #5 5.0-793-13,300 5.6-870-15,600 charge weight-velocity fps-pressure C.U.P.
Test using Universal Receiver- Barrel length 4"
Do you have any other powders that you would like to use for this?
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Post by erjdriver on Aug 25, 2014 20:04:03 GMT -5
erjdriver, As I stated they will tell you to go to the next weight up in data. Here is some data for Accurate #5 for a 155 grain LSWC from my copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Acc. #5 5.0-793-13,300 5.6-870-15,600 charge weight-velocity fps-pressure C.U.P. Test using Universal Receiver- Barrel length 4" Do you have any other powders that you would like to use for this? Thanks hacker... My Lyman's Manual is on the way...  . I have a variety of powder I can use for loading .38 Special to include Accurate #5 and Hodgdon Titegroup. The bullet in question and the Magnus 148gr BNWC are the only two lead bullets I'll be loading, so I think I'm set for the time being...bought 1,000 of each. If I get any other .38 Special bullets, they'll probably be plated, TMJ, or FMJ. If I get any other lead product in .38 SPL, it will be a brand name and will be a bullet. Others may disagree, but I just WASTED $17.99 on the Hodgdon Annual Reloading Manual, with the term "manual" being used EXTREMELY loosely in this case. This is nothing more than a glorified MAGAZINE!!! I was expecting, at a MINIMUM, a paperback BOOK! What I need can be gleaned from their website, so guess I got punked for $17.99 on that one. I ain't a happy camper right now...  |
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Post by hacker54 on Aug 25, 2014 20:46:39 GMT -5
erjdriver,
Hodgdon use to put out a manual. Their Data Manual #27 was their last one and with out checking it was around 1996(?) Since then they have been putting out the annual. A lot of the loads from that manual are still the same today on their web site but there are some changes to some.
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Post by erjdriver on Aug 25, 2014 21:07:54 GMT -5
erjdriver, Hodgdon use to put out a manual. Their Data Manual #27 was their last one and with out checking it was around 1996(?) Since then they have been putting out the annual. A lot of the loads from that manual are still the same today on their web site but there are some changes to some. I'm not discounting what you're saying, hacker, but I load pretty common stuff.... .38 Special 9mm .40 S&W .45 ACP .223 I can't see where anything I load would change that much over time and if so, I'm sure I could get the new information online or through other sources. It just pisses me off that I wasted $18 on a magazine that could have gone for something like my gas or water bill. Buyer beware, eh?? Oh well...it's not like I haven't pissed money away before for probably MUCH stupider stuff.  Have a great night... |
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Aug 25, 2014 21:39:07 GMT -5
erj: I buy the Hodgdon annual every year if for no other reason there is always an article or two that hve some tip or information. I also use their hard bound manual from the early'70s I never have enough information. I have Hodgdon, Sierra, Nosler, Alliant,Winchester and others on speed dial, I don't like to email important questions because you don't get a sense of whether it is a "lawyer" answer or a real answer.
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and found that the bullets really averaged closer to 150gr. So I contacted the gentleman I bought the bullets from (he owns/operates our shooting club) and he said there would be no problem loading them as 148gr.
. I have a variety of powder I can use for loading .38 Special to include Accurate #5 and Hodgdon Titegroup. The bullet in question and the Magnus 148gr BNWC are the only two lead bullets I'll be loading, so I think I'm set for the time being...bought 1,000 of each. If I get any other .38 Special bullets, they'll probably be plated, TMJ, or FMJ. If I get any other lead product in .38 SPL, it will be a brand name and will be a bullet.
My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
