7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521 
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 11, 2014 7:50:19 GMT -5
Ok so last night a friend of mine Kevin was over for a while and since I was loading some rounds for the wife we were sitting at the bench kinda chatting a bit since I took a break. He made a statement to me that made not one lick of sense to me. He asked me " WHY DO I BOTHER TO WEIGH EACH POWDER CHARGE? ". I guess that my jaw sitting on the bench with my mouth gapped open caused him to explain that he reloads strictly by volume. He went on to explain that he loads not only his plinking pistol rounds that was but also his hunting round. So I had to ask how he knew if he was getting an even load charge he explained it this way " AS LONG AS I USE A DROP TUBE AND GET THE POWDER TO SETTLE UPTO THE BASE OF THE CASE NECK IT ALL HAS THE SAME CHARGE WEIGHT ". All he hunts with is a 308 and the only powder he uses is Varget with 150gr bullets. At that point I got up and walked away from my bench taking him with me. This can not be safe. I thought I had heard stupid stuff before but this one takes the cake. Have any of you ever heard of this?
(AND NO DAN I DO NOT DO THIS EVER) |
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 11, 2014 9:00:53 GMT -5
Hang on.....I gotta sit down and think about this for a couple of hours.  |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 11, 2014 9:05:49 GMT -5
Chuck,
Yes I have heard of it and I bet if you think about it you have too. I don't have exact numbers but I would guess that probably 90% of all reloaders load by volume. That is what you are doing by setting up a powder throw. Yes you set them up by weight initially and many reloaders will check every 10th load or so but in the grand scheme of things it is volume loading. I also remember back in the 70's when I was loading .222 ammo by just scooping the powder into the case until it as at the bottom of the neck. I don't remember what powder I was using but I do remember that the powder being used had to be a compressed load to be at max. In that case I knew it was safe because filling to the bottom of the neck wasn't even close to being a compressed load. Also today when I need to fire form brass for my 30br I scoop the powder and fill to the neck bottom. This is also safe because the normal load of 34.7gr must be drop tubed in or it won't all go in. A load that is scooped in and fills to the bottom of the neck weighs between 30.2 and 31.4 which is well above min and well below max but does what I need for fireforming. Another thing I'm sure you haven't thought of is the Lee method. They supply a scooper with almost all dies sets. This is volume powder charging. In fact the Lee manuals list powder charges by weight and volume and call for a certain disk to be used in his powder throw. Many shotshell reloaders use a charger bar, this is also volume loading.
The thing that bothers me about what your friend is doing is that, by using a drop tube(depending on the length of the tube) your friend could be forcing a compressed load into the case using this method. It would be interesting to weigh one of his loads to find out where it falls in the load charts.
Does this method produce accurate rounds? Some! Would I use it in competition? yes for handgun no for rifle. Would I load hunting rounds this way? Maybe if my groups where within an acceptable size.
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 11, 2014 9:49:11 GMT -5
There is a school of thought that loading by volume produces a better more consistent load, Lee, I think,is
proponent. I don't believe, in a bottle neck case, it is good to go by base of neck unless you can measure it because you can't see it that accurately but with a dipper you could be accurate. Had to leave. To finish my thought which Dan already mentioned we tend to charge by volume when we use only the powder throw weighing occasionally. Chuck, your friend seemed a little cavalier about his process which leads to being suspect of his loads.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 11, 2014 10:05:37 GMT -5
Dan I have no clue about his accuracy. Since I have only ever used a powder thrower a few times and always weighed the powder so I could trickle up (thought it would speed up my process some it didn't) to my desired weight. I have a set of those Lee dippers and use them but I guess not the way they are supposed to be used as I used them to fill the pan on my scale. But with what you explained I can see how this works. I know the 46 grain charge of Varget in my brass with 165 grain bullets fills my brass to the bottom of the neck on Norma brass but I don't use a drop tube either. I just guess I had never thought of loading by volume is all and it kind of worried me because I have shot side by side with this guy before.
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 11, 2014 10:08:21 GMT -5
Huh! Learn something new every day!!!  |
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Nov 11, 2014 10:21:56 GMT -5
And then there's......  Strictly volume, brethren.  The little Lee Loaders, and even my one Lee Target Loader bought 40 years ago came with a volume scoop. The target loader was as accurate as anything I've ever loaded.....no.....more accurate. Just to slow for impatient types. No need to say more, Dan covered the rest. |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 11, 2014 10:23:47 GMT -5
Like I said the majority of reloaders load by volume.
Bob that school of thought doesn't work for me at all. Although I do know that a load that fills the case at least 75% usually is more consistent than lesser loads. I also know that when I have tried loading my rifle competition loads in the past by volume, I placed very low in the standings. When I finally wised up and started weighing every single load I started winning. Handguns are a hole different animal for me in that I'm not bullseye shooting. If I can hit center mass at 25 yards or a 8" steel plate at that distance, I'm good to go. You guys would probably freak out at how little handgun case prep I do or in this case I don't do. In fact all I do is size them nothing else.
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 11, 2014 11:58:36 GMT -5
I had to leave for a meeting. I edited my OP. I have always charged by weight, throw a charge and trickle to weight for rifle except for the little .22s because the powder flows uniformly still it is 1/5 & weigh. Dan when you load in the volume you do with a progressive that is all the prep you can do. What about primer pockets after a number of loadings?
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Post by hacker54 on Nov 11, 2014 13:16:11 GMT -5
Dan covered this very well. I have the Lee scoop set and I did load per their instructions for certain rounds and found to get acceptable accuracy for hunting. I also like Chuck use them to start a charge in the scale pan then trickle up to weight. As for those of you that buy factory now and then these are volume loaded. Now Nosler Custom ammo is according to them each round's powder charged is weighed. I also load shot shell and like the factory it is by volume.
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 11, 2014 21:52:01 GMT -5
Bob,
I mentioned this back when we were still at the hub but I don't worry about primer pockets on handgun loads. I never pickup my own brass usually unless it is .380acp so I rarely have any handgun brass that is more than once fired to load. I usually walk down the line until I find someone that is shooting factory loads and pickup their brass if they aren't. Clean it in the cement mixer/tumbler and load it all in the Lee LoadMaster and go to work. Once they are all loaded I run them in the 50 hole EGW chamber checker, throw them in the ammo box ready for the next trip to the range.
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 11, 2014 22:26:03 GMT -5
You xpkt me to r'member that far ago, I normally don't r'member how to tie my shoe laces, that's if I can remember where I put'em the night before.
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 11, 2014 22:40:10 GMT -5
Bob,
No I didn't LOL that is why I splained it again. LOL
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 18, 2014 10:51:14 GMT -5
Like I said the majority of reloaders load by volume. Bob that school of thought doesn't work for me at all. Although I do know that a load that fills the case at least 75% usually is more consistent than lesser loads. I also know that when I have tried loading my rifle competition loads in the past by volume, I placed very low in the standings. When I finally wised up and started weighing every single load I started winning. Handguns are a hole different animal for me in that I'm not bullseye shooting. If I can hit center mass at 25 yards or a 8" steel plate at that distance, I'm good to go. You guys would probably freak out at how little handgun case prep I do or in this case I don't do. In fact all I do is size them nothing else. Dan I was at my buddies house while he was loading I wouldn't exactly call what he uses a drop tube he uses an RCBS quick change funnel with a home made 1 inch extension. I can get the charge he uses to settle with out that little extension by letting the powder roll around the funnel from top to bottom. His charges weighed an average of 47.8 grains he used Nos #6 data to set up his charge which listed a max charge to be 48.5 grains. What he didn't tell me was he weighs 5 out of every 50 powder loads at random before he seats his bullets. |
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The little Lee Loaders, and even my one Lee Target Loader bought 40 years ago came with a volume scoop. The target loader was as accurate as anything I've ever loaded.....no.....more accurate. Just to slow for impatient types.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
