7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521 
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 12, 2014 9:54:13 GMT -5
Ok so I know that I am not an expert. That said I have loaded a bunch and shot a bunch of 7RM stuff. My step son asked for my help so I have been giving it. He asked me for suggestions which I have given him what I have used in the past that has worked for me. I have all but offered to run a cycle for myself but he doesn't like that none of my loads are screamers. All my loads are for accuracy not pure speed he wants a screamer that is both accurate and a screamer. So I gotta ask if you ask someone for help that has ore knowledge than you do why would you not listen to them??
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Post by krwada on Nov 12, 2014 11:19:30 GMT -5
Hello Chuck;
It is called "thick-headed-ness" ... We all get afflicted with this malady ... from time to time.
It is as Mark Twain said.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
The real world does eventually catch up to us ... ALL of us!
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 12, 2014 11:24:04 GMT -5
It is obveeus I no mor then thaa doo nd im kwite a bit mor intligent so their! I cun also count too nien on my fingers.
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et1
Member
Posts: 120
Location: Ontario Canada
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Post by et1 on Nov 12, 2014 11:25:58 GMT -5
Not a difficult question at all to answer.
The younger generation who has not yet learned certain dependable values and seeking what they believe may be better.
He’s seeking a hot rod and you’re trying to sell him on a dependable vehicle.
You also appear to be taking this personal because someone is not conforming to your belief from your experience.
If someone doesn’t take my advice after asking me something I take no offence. Some just have to learn in their own way by trial and error to find out for themselves what is best for them. The positive side for me is that I have planted a seed from my experience that may yet one day grow.
Ed
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 12, 2014 11:33:34 GMT -5
Chuck. a more serious answer to your question is well done by et1, also remember we were all young and "smart" once, then we grew up and realized we did need help or advice from a more knowledgeable source, book or human.
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Post by hacker54 on Nov 12, 2014 11:57:06 GMT -5
Chuck,
et1 summed it up pretty well there and yes you did plant seed with the advice given. I would ask after the sound advice given does he want minute of Bambi or minute of barn cause the proof is how ya did on that long range shot on game. Yep it was a screamer but was it on target? This is where one sees the performance of the load.
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gws
Member
Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Nov 12, 2014 12:39:55 GMT -5
Well at least you are talking to him.....one of my Sons-in-law has never asked for advice (he already knows it all and wouldn't dream of nicking his know-it-all armor). So he's 38, went through bankruptcy at 24, and is close to it again.
It's one thing to learn from the school of hard knocks, it's totally another to have the best view of a stampeding herd of buffalo, from a lawn chair in the middle of their path.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 12, 2014 12:56:22 GMT -5
et1 it's not so much I am taking it personal it he asked for my help and doesn't like the fact that from experience with a caliber I have a lot of rounds loaded and sent down range he mocks it as not what he wants. I told him ok gave him the info he wanted and left him on his own. Ran to town picked up my 4551 and now he is just in my way.
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et1
Member
Posts: 120
Location: Ontario Canada
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Post by et1 on Nov 12, 2014 14:58:09 GMT -5
7mmmountaineer
I have been involved with raising 3-stepchildren and it definitely was not an easy task.
Never mind trying to teach them any values because I always got that I was not their dad and had no right to teach or enforce any discipline. I can only imagine what they thought of me at times when they mocked me. Their teen years was hell on earth for me and even threatened my lively hood because I could lose my certification for being bonded for travel and special jobs.
The youngest was into drugs and it came down to one point I had to tell him if I found any drugs in this home he was history and I would even notify the police myself. His comment one time was the cops are too stupid to ever catch or tag him with a drug conviction. Ironically that shortly thereafter his was tagged by an undercover police officer who he tried to sell drugs too in a bar. Today he is not even allowed to travel to the USA or some other countries because of his conviction many years ago.
What I have learned through this period of time with step children is that you only can try to instill what I believe are good values and principles but ultimately they have the right to make their own choice and that includes any consequences for their choice be it good or bad. At least having tried I feel no guilt or upset when they choose another path that may have dire consequences when they did not listen to my advice or warning.
Bottom line was give and share your best and leave the rest to them to decide. You’ve then done your part and can do no more.
Ed
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050
Location: New Hamster
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Post by poohzilla on Nov 12, 2014 15:43:47 GMT -5
The experts tell me that the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain that does judgment stuff) doesn't get fully hooked up until an *average* age of 25. Some sooner, some later. Personally, I wish I knew as much now as I did then... Keep the faith.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 12, 2014 19:29:24 GMT -5
et1 the boy turns 36 next week and is a MARINE through and through always will be. Me I am just an ARMY vet so their is one source of friction. He also thinks he mother can do better so he and I try not to really get around each other. I however helped him as much as I could the last year he just doesn't appreciate it. He thinks he knows better than I do and that's fine. He called me right before dinner and asked me how he can get 3000 fps and accuracy I told him to keep trying different things. He is focused on velocity way to much if you ask me but I tried.
Pooh with him turning 36 next week I figure he is on his own now. |
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Post by ed alger on Nov 12, 2014 20:13:23 GMT -5
Well, perhaps he's not concerned about barrel life. Is it because he didn't pay for the rifle himself? I'm told that barrel accuracy/life is a function of rounds fired versus bullet speed.
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050
Location: New Hamster
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Post by poohzilla on Nov 12, 2014 22:14:37 GMT -5
Ooop. 36 ? Given that and Marine service, he should have figured out by now
that only hits count.
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et1
Member
Posts: 120
Location: Ontario Canada
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Post by et1 on Nov 13, 2014 6:49:24 GMT -5
7mmmountaineer
First off I agree with your thought on high velocity being detrimental to accuracy. That has been proven to me many times at the range with reloads. But it is our choice to maintain quality through accuracy over velocity. We also factor in the bullet’s characteristic response to certain levels of velocity for maximum performance.
He has chosen a different path for whatever reason and that’s his right to do so. If he believes he knows better well let him believe it as his own arrogance will not accept anything else.
Appreciation, what is that because I never received any for all the years I gave to raise my stepchildren. Today that doesn’t matter anymore because I found contentment that I gave what was required of me.
Funny thing about appreciation that when it’s expressed towards us for something we gave we have a tendency or motivational encouragement to give a little more next time.
For me a turning point in my life was discarding excess emotional baggage by not allowing it to drag me down or play on me. Doesn’t mean I have to always accept everything around me but see it for what it is. If I can’t change it to suit me then I leave it alone and move on. My only regret is not learning this earlier in life that would have saved me a lot of grief that could have been avoided.
The youngest stepson today is 40 and has an anger management problem with others. I can only hope he will awaken one day and see who he really is.
Ed
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 13, 2014 9:22:12 GMT -5
7mm, Don't feel badly and don't think it's limited to "younger" folk. My 79 year old mother...love her to pieces...is one of the smartest, hardest working, self-made women I know...VERY wise, though bull-headed and opinionated like most Italians; I inherited that trait. HOWEVER.....my former career was in IT. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I know a pretty good deal about computer and electronic BASICS. I used to know A LOT more, but I've lost a lot of the knowledge I knew "back then" since leaving the industry; but retained my knowledge of the basics. I'm no expert by any means, but if there's a computer problem in our respective households spread across TX and LA, I'm usually the go-to Technical Support guy for the family. I don't know how many times my mother has asked my advice on something, and DAMN if she won't do the exact polar opposite, thereby creating more work for me (she lives 250 miles away) when something "deep sixes". It's not only limited to the young, my friend.....  As to your specific predicament, as long as "the boy" isn't exceeding load limits, is conducting things by the book, and is being safe (priority #1) to the best of his ability, then let him be. It's his accuracy that will suffer (if that's his goal), but if he just wants to hear things go BANG loudly (and hopefully it's not his firearms) and brag to his buddies how fast his rounds travel down range, then so be it. It's his money he's wasting by using more powder per round and the potential loss of brass as it prematurely cracks or gets damaged beyond safe reloading limits with high pressure loads. Now if you were buying all the components for him, then it would be another story altogether..... JMHO...live long and prosper!!  |
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Post by springfieldxdm on Nov 13, 2014 19:03:13 GMT -5
Set him up with a safe just under max screamer. Tell him you found it on the internet, and that it's clover leaf accurate at 500 yds in guns just like his. His shoulder will be sore and your powder will be gone when he figures out that the screaming load is just not that accurate. Then if he persists tell him that it must be him or the gun, but most likely he just sucks as a shooter. I would have fun with it for a while, but I'm also just mean.
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 13, 2014 19:43:05 GMT -5
One must be careful about "screamer "loads my .257 Rob'ts is most accurate with a load I can't use for hunting because the weather is too warm. On cool days when I worked up the ladder to max everything was fine near clover leaf groups velocities hovering around 3,150 - 3,175 fps with 117 gr. Sierras and no visible or measured pressure signs. I cut the load back 0.5 gr. and the groups opened up to an acceptable 3/4"-7/8" and velocity dropped also to an acceptable level and pressure dropped. I don't know for sure whether the Max would have been safe I assume so(bad choice of words) but didn't want to chance it as temps get to 95 - 100 frequently. My own 7mm.RM liked a 160 gr.Nosler @ 3,000 fps. . So the short version is his rifle may be alright with safe hot loads. That doesn't excuse his attitude toward Chuck though!
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dangun
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I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 14, 2014 10:51:06 GMT -5
Giving advise as you all know can turn to frustration. I have changed to way I response to those requests for help or suggestions on loads. Once I understand what they are trying to achieve I can give my advise. In this situation. Instead of arguing about why screamer loads are rarely accurate, I would have just simply said that I don't know of a screamer load that is accurate enough for my standards.
Most people hate to be told they can't do something. That includes my younger self. Now I just tell them I'm not aware of any and leave it at that.
What really upsets me is those that ask advise for something that is dangerous but ignore the warnings and do it anyway, then brag about it. Yep there are plenty of people who get away with this and then there are those that don't. There seems to be more than just a few out there that should have taken up needle point instead of reloading, but they would probably find away to hurt themselves doing that too!
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 14, 2014 13:56:45 GMT -5
Dan, I like your response and am going to remember it. You are right in saying they would hurt themselves with needle point I would suggest reading, perhaps a book that would put them to sleep but then they may fall out of the chair and hurt themselves!
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 14, 2014 15:15:01 GMT -5
Giving advise as you all know can turn to frustration. I have changed to way I response to those requests for help or suggestions on loads. Once I understand what they are trying to achieve I can give my advise. In this situation. Instead of arguing about why screamer loads are rarely accurate, I would have just simply said that I don't know of a screamer load that is accurate enough for my standards. Most people hate to be told they can't do something. That includes my younger self. Now I just tell them I'm not aware of any and leave it at that. What really upsets me is those that ask advise for something that is dangerous but ignore the warnings and do it anyway, then brag about it. Yep there are plenty of people who get away with this and then there are those that don't. There seems to be more than just a few out there that should have taken up needle point instead of reloading, but they would probably find away to hurt themselves doing that too! Perhaps why my shop teacher was nicknamed "Stubby".....  |
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 15, 2014 12:49:10 GMT -5
Thanks guys I am gonna give this one more try my own way. He is out of town till Tues for work and I have his rifle. I will be running a couple cycles to show him what I have found out over the years and from listening to folks like you. Besides the wife blew my phone up from the time I left the house on Thurs asking me to help him. Plus I have a doe for the freezer that I took yesterday so I have a free afternoon and all day tomorrow.
He more than likely will not like my solution. I will show him that sometimes maybe he should open his mind to the knowledge of others. He wants a screamer I am going to try and show him most of the time screamers are over rated. I have done a lot of 7RM work the last few years and have found that more often than not a midrange load was more accurate than a screamer. I have from experience and trial and error found a couple combos that have worked in every rifle I have tried them in. I will load and shoot a cycle for both 160gr Spr BTSP's and Nos 150 Partition's that I know are both accurate and carry more than enough velocity for the distance he will more than likely be shooting and beyond. Then the choice will be his to make. I am thinking he will just shrug and walk off and ignore what I have to show him but his mother will know I tried which is all that is important to me at this point. |
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Post by hacker54 on Nov 15, 2014 15:22:22 GMT -5
Chuck,
I think that is a good approach to this is to show how loads work. Then show him what minute of Bambi looks like compared to minute of barn.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 16, 2014 15:41:56 GMT -5
After 75 rounds over the course of yesterday afternoon and today I finally found 2 loads this rifle will  . He will not like either of them because as I said he wants a screamer. However I went with 2 old stand by loads today and got both shooting in the .8 range at 100 and 1.344 at 200yd. Chronoed both the 160gr Spr BTSP with 67.7gr of Retumbo 2890fps ave ES 19, SD 15 and the 150gr Partiton with 70.9gr Retumbo 2984fps ave ES 20 SD 14. His mother said if he bitches about it tough for him.
I did find one huge glaring error he was making. He had 5 loads on his brass and I found 7 pieces with split necks. I annealed his brass for him and that's when the magic happened. I also noticed that accuracy with this rifle drops off quickly after about 20 rounds. I cleaned the rifle 3 times during shooting all I can say is thank god for Wipe Out Patch Out and the Accelerator  ..........
Sorry had some numbers backwards my mind and eyes were going fast than my fingers.......
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jbnut
Member
Posts: 169
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
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Post by jbnut on Nov 16, 2014 18:50:20 GMT -5
The most important thing is that his mother, your wife, is happy with what you did. Your alright Chuck.
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 16, 2014 22:01:03 GMT -5
Our pastor in church today talked about making deposits in your spouse's emotional bank account. You just made some deposits with the Mrs.....good for you!!! |
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 21, 2014 13:54:08 GMT -5
IT'S A MIRACLE........... I WAS JUST THANKED AND TOLD MY PARTITION LOAD WAS GOING TO DEER CAMP  AND I AM NOT THE ONE CARRYING IT.... |
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jbnut
Member
Posts: 169
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
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Post by jbnut on Nov 21, 2014 14:01:29 GMT -5
IT'S A MIRACLE........... I WAS JUST THANKED AND TOLD MY PARTITION LOAD WAS GOING TO DEER CAMP AND I AM NOT THE ONE CARRYING IT.... I can almost see you smiling. Congrats, it's a boy. lol |
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 21, 2014 14:29:28 GMT -5
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gws
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Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Nov 21, 2014 17:11:50 GMT -5
See, talking is the important thing......keep the dialog open and things work out. Congrats for not giving up.
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Post by merdoc357 on May 5, 2015 21:21:08 GMT -5
If the boy wont listen, then he is not mature enough to reload, even though he may know how to do some things in reloading, and some basic stuff, He must be taught how to listen, to keep him self and others safe, I am open for any comments. Its just a safety factor I needed to post. Of course, I'm open to any responsible individual for comments and questions. Take care, and Be gentle in teaching "the boy" to listen, you may have to have "tough love" to show him. Perhaps someone will get this post, I'll be interested to see what responses come about. Take care from Merdoc357, and if I have offended you, please forgive, but I had to post something. Happy reloading, and "keep them in the 10 range", lol
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. He will not like either of them because as I said he wants a screamer. However I went with 2 old stand by loads today and got both shooting in the .8 range at 100 and 1.344 at 200yd. Chronoed both the 160gr Spr BTSP with 67.7gr of Retumbo 2890fps ave ES 19, SD 15 and the 150gr Partiton with 70.9gr Retumbo 2984fps ave ES 20 SD 14. His mother said if he bitches about it tough for him.
AND I AM NOT THE ONE CARRYING IT....
My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
