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Post by erjdriver on Nov 20, 2014 22:07:09 GMT -5
...that is the question. I have yet to reload one piece of .223 brass, but pretty much have an idea and game plan in my head as to how it's going to play out from the SS wet tumble/wash, then a little lube and sizing on the JR2 press (or Rock Chucker Supreme if I get that for Christmas  ), then the Hornady L-N-L Case Prep Center for trim/chamfer, then priming on the Pro2000, back into a dry tumble with corn cob 20/40 grit, and finally back onto the Pro2000 to finish out powder, powder check, seating, and crimping. Anyway, the question I have and what I'd like to focus on in this thread is annealing... I will NOT be loading this brass for specific accuracy. I'm merely going to reload this brass (at this point) for plinking and basic "trigger time" on my AR. Given this fact, should I spend the time annealing the brass? If it's NOT annealed, are there any safety issues to consider? If I were loading this brass for accuracy and/or for hunting, then I would most certainly consider annealing the brass. But just for plinking? Meh...not so much. What say you, oh experts of reloading who have been doing this for waaaaaay longer than I?? Thanks! p.s. I'm gonna go out and find some illegal aliens and congratulate them on their recent amnesty granted them by our Dictator-in-Chief, a.k.a., DOTUS.  |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 20, 2014 22:27:34 GMT -5
Annealing needs to be done every 4th or 5th time the brass is reloaded. What the ammo is used for is of no concern. If not done the necks will eventually Crack and could cause damage to the chamber. Annealing also helps to prevent the brass from being set to the recycled prematurely.
Caution. .. annealing done wrong can be very dangerous. I think I have a video posted on how to somewhere on here. Videos directing you to watch for a certain glow will get you hurt. I am away from my computer or I could look up that link for you.
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 20, 2014 22:31:31 GMT -5
Thanks Mr. Dan,
I did a search on "anneal" and there were zero results returned. I'm in no hurry, as I probably won't even be touching a piece of .223 brass for reloading until some time next year. Just at your convenience if you could re-post that video, it would be much appreciated.
Great evening to you!
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 20, 2014 22:36:01 GMT -5
And to REALLY show my ignorance on this subject, at what point in the reloading process would you anneal the brass? Before resizing/trimming or after? I hang my head in shame......  |
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bob
Member
I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457 
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Nov 21, 2014 0:50:37 GMT -5
erj, as Dan indicated you should not have to anneal your brass for a while. One thing you said concerns me some ,you intend to clean your brass in a tumbler after priming. This is NOT a good idea as the flash hole may be plugged and/or you won't empty the case completely. You won't know it until you pull the trigger. You should clean the brass completely before priming.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 21, 2014 7:53:41 GMT -5
I anneal as the last step before loading. After all the other case prep is finished. If done correctly all you will have is a slightly discolored neck and shoulder area and it will not hurt how the brass functions through an action at least not a bolt gun. I will also second what Bob said dry tumbling primed cases is a bad idea and could lead to a bad unintended accident. |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 21, 2014 8:24:44 GMT -5
ERJ, I don't agree with Chuck. Annealing should be done before brass prep such as resizing. If not the brass will not have it's springback attributes during the prep work. If major prep work is being preformed such as necking up or down the annealing may be needed before and after. Prep work even as slight as resizing can cause stress cracks if the brass is too hard. No need to be ashamed. After the 3rd or 4th reload. Many will tell you that they shoot them as many as 10 or 11 times before they anneal. What they don't realize is that most of the brass will have micro stress cracks in the necks as early as the 6th reload. Once the micro stress cracks start there is no repair and no amount of annealing will make them good again. Certainly they can be used a few more times but the damage is done. I decap and clean the brass. Once clean I anneal. I looked for the video that I posted but then realized that posting was on the Hub and I am unable to locate it on my hard drive. Next time I anneal brass I will do another video. Until then here are some instructions. Tools needed. 1. electric variable speed drill or screw driver 2. Apex hex drive w 1/4" male square drive. 3. Shell holder or appropriately sized socket 4. 750 degree F Tempilaq 5. Propane torch 6. bucket of water. Once the brass is clean paint a stripe inside the neck of all the brass to be annealed. Be sure the Tempilaq being used is 750 degree F. The Tempilaq will dry quickly. Place the hex drive into the drill chuck with a socket just large enough for the brass to sit in. Next light the torch and adjust the flame so that it is about 3/4 full open. Place a previously Tempilag striped case in the socket and start the drill so that it is spinning fast enough to make one complete revolution every couple of seconds. Then place the spinning brass into the flame. Care must be taken to expose only the shoulder and the neck to the flame. Watch the tempilaq as you are spinning the brass. When it starts to turn clear or melt remove the brass from the flame and dump it in water quickly. Dump it in water as fast as you can, this will prevent the heat from migrating down to the head. It is very important that the head hardness not change. (stop laughing!) When all are done as you remove them from the water use a bore brush to remove any Tempilaq residue from inside the bottle necks. Once dry, reload! I highly advise you to find some not so good brass to practice on. Annealing is very easy to do and is easier to screw it up. There is some good info on YouTube about annealing but there is even more that is just plain stupid!!!! DO NOT follow those misguided souls you will find on you tube telling you to keep it in the flame until you see the brass just start to glow. If it glows it is now damaged, if it glows long enough it could possibly shed brass when fired causing permanent damage to your barrel. I have been annealing brass longer than most reloaders knew it needed to be done and I am freaked out by all the bad info there is on You Tube on this simple task. I am not saying that I'm an expert on annealing but I do know many are passing on bad info. I wouldn't want to be on the same range as these guys when the fire their overly annealed brass. The only way to know that you are doing it correctly is to use a temperature indicator as I have mentioned above. Be Safe and Have Fun!!! |
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Post by erjdriver on Nov 21, 2014 10:35:27 GMT -5
OK...copy on the tumbling after priming and copy on the process itself. I GREATLY appreciate all the feedback and will print this out and put it on the workbench.
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gws
Member
Posts: 969
Location: NW New Mexico
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Post by gws on Nov 21, 2014 12:00:29 GMT -5
Dan's right about glowing cases and misinformation on YouTube. You have to be careful. The only thing I have to add is that annealing can be tediously long, especially if you just bought a box of 1000 LC 7.62 cases to prep for loading. Some of that stuff is hard (and hard to size)! Some has been shot in machine guns and so is over-sized and need special attention. Still, IMO, it's a good source of cheap brass for self defense, hunting, and plinking. Also my opinion is that its smart to anneal the stuff before you even try sizing it back to usability. So, say you have big box of brass to anneal. Wouldn't it be nice to have a faster way to do it without spending 400 dollars on a commercial annealer? That's why I posted the nifty little New Zealand annealer recently on "Equipment". I think I will build one of those. Why that one? because it's simple, made with easily acquired cheap internet available parts, and it has two speed controls that completely control the time the brass is in the flame. I really like the $3 cake pan he uses to rotate the brass! What a great simple idea. Obviously, with such a machine you have to use Tempilaq correctly to set the speed controls, but once set using Tempilaq-coated cases for a dozen or so, and your batch is all the same head stamps including year, the I think its safe to get some fast & safe annealing done. Use Dan's thread to learn how to use the Tempilaq. Many like to additionally use 450 degree Tempilaq lower on the case to make sure you don't heat that area too much. Dan, what say you on that? Don't remember on your video whether you did that or not. Link to the New Zealander's machine. |
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 21, 2014 12:33:15 GMT -5
Dang it Dan you just love making me learn or at least rethink what I do  ... I had never thought about the spring back of the brass so again I will change my process and try it another way..... SHEESH my head hurts  ........... |
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dangun
Member
I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Nov 25, 2014 0:10:51 GMT -5
Greg, I agree with you on the use of an annealer machine if the use of tempilaq is learned first. Not that it is difficult to use but it does need to be experienced before it is used on good brass. The annealers are great when large numbers of brass require annealing. I have a couple of these machines and found that I don't anneal enough brass in one setting to justify the time required to set them up. That is the only reason I use the manual process described above. I wouldn't tell anyone not to use the 450 tempilaq on the heads of the brass but I will say that I think it is unnecessary unless working quickly is not in a persons skill set. A note about Tempilaq. It is not intended to be placed so that it has direct contact with a flame. Direct exposure to a flame will cause the coating to prematurely melt which will give a false indication. So if used it should be put on the bottom 1/3 of the brass. Depending on the depth of the socket or rotating plate used, the bottom 1/3 could be hidden. Another thing to consider is if using an annealer machine or socket both will act as a heat sink reducing the possibility of over heating the head. By all means if it makes you more comfortable to use the 450 then do so. Any coating that is unmelted will just add to your work load by having to remove it. Chuck, It is easy to forget some of the variables we are faced with in this hobby. Some are only important if you are shooting in competition where everything has to go your way for you to win. Your method probably gets you by just fine. You probably aren't moving or working your brass as much as I am so I usually have to use more extreme measures to prep my brass. I do believe that by tweaking your process your brass will last much longer and more gains in consistency and accuracy will be realized. I'm not trying to get any of you to become competitive shooters but instead to load like you are. In doing that I believe you will gain more enjoyment for this hobby or if nothing else become at least as anal as I am. |
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), then the Hornady L-N-L Case Prep Center for trim/chamfer, then priming on the Pro2000, back into a dry tumble with corn cob 20/40 grit, and finally back onto the Pro2000 to finish out powder, powder check, seating, and crimping.
... I had never thought about the spring back of the brass so again I will change my process and try it another way..... SHEESH my head hurts 
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My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
