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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 8:24:18 GMT -5
The Dutch government has entered yesterday a new (gun)law proposal that has a good chance that this new law/bill will pas with positive 100% by the parliament. Again without any prior public notification. This new law proposal has two major items. A. Every (new) gun owner will need to undergo a mental health test, that will be conducted by a third party organization. This third party is currently an institute that is specialized in mental health care in relationship with drugs, alcohol and medication addiction. Apparently the Dutch government thinks we gun owners are all addicts. If this organization decides that you are a risk for the general public......your days as legal gun owner are numbered. This test also can be conducted by a local police officer, the police will receive guidelines for what to ask and what the answers must be. Now a person without any medial education can and will examine you, to be sure that you are not a crazy individual....... That’s highly dangerous topic and fact to be reckoned with in the upcoming months and years. B. We already need two persons (like family members and/or very good friends) that state/declare that you have no mental issues or have some kind of addiction. Now this will be 3 persons instead of 2 we already had. These persons can and will be held accountable for your actions if you decide to do something (very) stupid. These statements will be part of the entire investigation regarding your mental health as mentioned above. The worst thing is obvious the 1st issue, now a 3rd party and the local police will decide if you are sound enough to own guns. If you are on some kind of medication you might get in to trouble, this might be enough to revoke your license for ever. Oh by the way: Is it true that the State of Washington has a bill approved that one need special forms to sell and trade guns from person to person? And that one need a local gun store to conduct that transaction? If that is really true...... it’s a full 100% copy of our Dutch gun law that we have in-place for over 20 years now! We can’t sell/trade guns without extra paperwork and the involvement of the local police department and a gun store. Apparently the American law-makers again did look pretty darn good at our Dutch laws!  PJ. |
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Post by krwada on Nov 25, 2014 11:23:59 GMT -5
So... when are the Dutch politicians and authorities going to create travel restrictions and check points?
This is the problem with pro-active law enforcement. The authorities basically having their way with you all the while proclaiming that they have your "best interests" at heart.
But ... Take Heart Peter! We here in California are not too far behind! All of our Overlords here in California pay very extra special attention to what is going on over in Holland ... so we can attempt to outdo you here!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 12:20:13 GMT -5
Restrictions regarding traveling "with" a gun is something we have for a long time. You are only allowed to travel with a gun from your home to a range and back or to a gun store and back to home. That's all! And if you go to a range you need to fill out a special booklet/register that is signed off by the rangemaster. This register is a part of your license.
Not even visiting a friend who has a gun license as well, nor can he come to your place with a gun. Simply said..... just traveling to a range or a gun store is allowed with a gun.
PJ
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Post by krwada on Nov 25, 2014 23:44:03 GMT -5
Restrictions regarding traveling "with" a gun is something we have for a long time. You are only allowed to travel with a gun from your home to a range and back or to a gun store and back to home. That's all! And if you go to a range you need to fill out a special booklet/register that is signed off by the rangemaster. This register is a part of your license. Not even visiting a friend who has a gun license as well, nor can he come to your place with a gun. Simply said..... just traveling to a range or a gun store is allowed with a gun. PJ Dang PJ! I thought I was just joking! I guess it is no joke over in the Netherlands. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 3:30:08 GMT -5
Ken,
Well how about this part of owning and traveling with ammo. At your gun license is mentioned what kind of ammo is allowed to own, shoot and travel with. Not just the amount but also the kind of caliber. This has to correspond with the guns mentioned on your license.
Lets say you don’t own a .30-06 rifle but do have this ammo in your possession than this is an instant end of your license (gun ownership). If a similar thing happens at your home during the unannounced house calls, your guns will be confiscated.
You can add other calibers to your license for 2 other reasons.
A. If you reload for someone else and it will be noted for whom your reload.
B. If you need to form cases from other brass (this is only allowed with antique pré 1892 cartridge calibers). The original caliber is mentioned + the brass (headstamp) of the formed cases. Example: 12,7x44R ammo made from .50-70 brass.
This is all about to “help” the average patrol officer, in the Netherlands 99,99% of all the cops have absolutely no idea about guns. This fact is well known to the government. So if you are checked the officer can see if you have the allowed ammo in your possession. But even than you can run into serious trouble fast. Because they have no knowledge with guns in general. To name an example: a friend of mine was brought over to the police station because his license says the owns a S&W (Rifle) but the officer encountered a rifle (AR Platform) but not a pistol or revolver. The officer thought that S&W made only pistols and revolvers, not rifles. This resulted in a 24 hour arrest and nearly lost his job to that. This is not something exceptional, this happens daily all over the Netherlands
And what about this.
In the Netherlands we do have a couple times a week regular “traffic” controls. Randomly in your neighborhood, you will never know where and when. At these controls, your car is checked for the proper paperwork, proper state of the car, an identification check of all the persons in the car. They check also you and your car for illegal drugs and guns/knives (anything what might aid you in case of self-defense). And a field sobriety test. You can’t do anything about it, your are checked together with all your fellow road users all at once. People get arrested for owning knives, MagLites, tire irons, axes, pieces of wood or steel (even when your jobs requires it to have such items). You get a register in the national database as an offender. Once registered you never can get a gun license if you did not had one yet.
So when I encounter such a Police checkpoint and do have a gun (and ammo) with me, I will be double checked if everything is in good order. This has happened 3 times to me this year alone. The Police is known to do these checks near sporting complexes, shopping centers and at special events (days). My car license plate(s) is/are also linked to the gun owners list. So when my car is checked by a cop he will know that I own guns. When my wife drives my car she is in for extra scrutiny because she might have one of my guns with her. This happened to her a couple times in the past.
These random police checks can also be done when you are in shopping centers (when you are by foot or on a bicycle). To add more insult to injury: If I come in to contact with the police (lets say I was witness of an accident). The next day a special police unit involved with gun licenses will get a message about that. They than will check if this might have bad effects for my gun license. If I was involved in a bar fight (highly unlikely.....ha ha ha) than the next day my license is revoked for sure.
So yes the Netherlands is transformed into a police state.
PJ.
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et1
Member
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Location: Ontario Canada
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Post by et1 on Nov 26, 2014 8:39:34 GMT -5
PJ
I can’t imagine myself living in such an environment where my every action is monitored and controlled.
Here we have a system that I consider reasonable enough to not totally infringe on my freedom and the right to own, transport and use a firearm for shooting or hunting. Our system is commonly referred to as PAL. Possession and Acquisition License to own and use firearms. There are different categories such as prohibited, restricted and non-restricted firearms. Also to buy loaded ammunition off the shelf I need a PAL but yet to purchase powder or primers all I need is a driver’s license or proof of ID. Go Figure.
With the PAL I can borrow someone else’s firearm (non-restricted) if need be and transport to any location I need to take it too. Yes there are a few rules I need to follow when transporting a firearm and don’t find them unreasonable. Even storing firearms for someone else who has a PAL is acceptable. My good friend is currently going through a separation and divorce and approached me to store some of his firearms during this unsettling period. No problem but now the responsibility for these firearms rests on my shoulder until he comes to reclaim them and his PAL is still valid.
People who make laws scare even me with their lack of knowledge in given areas. You are also right about the lack of education to those that enforce some of these laws. Even though I have had no issues with law enforcement I have heard of costly horror stories when the law was incorrectly enforced generating expensive legal fees. Then what burns my butt is that there was no accountability for those that incorrectly used the law for false accusations.
Today the legal firearm owner must deal with such an environment that threatens his right to own and use firearms like never before. While the focus remains on the legal firearm owner criminals are having a heyday instead of the focus being on them. Such is the society we live in with unqualified individuals who make our laws.
Ed
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Post by hacker54 on Nov 26, 2014 11:16:42 GMT -5
Ed you summed it up right there with those that make the laws are for simple terms STUPID and do not know any better. Those that hold office are power hungry and want more and more power over the people. When things like this happen you are no longer a citizen you are a subject. These people want total control over you and need to rid you of anything that would get in their way and that would be your freedoms. Like speech and firearms. Take these away and they will want you to bow down before them. They will have to plant me before I do such a thing.
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Post by krwada on Nov 26, 2014 12:39:32 GMT -5
Let this be a BIG REMINDER to all here in the United States. Giving up even a little bit of FREEDOM and LIBERTY for State-sponsored security is a BIG LIE.
Moving to a free-state is delusional thinking!
We must all, (here in the USA) STAND AND FIGHT!!!
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et1
Member
Posts: 120
Location: Ontario Canada
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Post by et1 on Nov 26, 2014 13:32:33 GMT -5
Hacker54
Your view is more generous than mine. Even though I’m not imprisoned (confined) in a small cell I feel like a prisoner within a regulated society that sees me as a possible criminal because of my desire to own and use firearms. As time passes my cell of so called freedom becomes smaller with more regulations (enacted laws) that confines me even more.
There was once freedom of owning a firearm but now I have to pay for that so called restricted freedom that is accompanied with so many regulations for possession, usage, storage and movement.
In a governing society I understand the need for laws to promote harmony and provide protection. But when appointed law makers infringe on the rights, privileges and freedom of a particular group (not including criminals) in society then the harmony is now in jeopardy and the governing body has failed its purpose. I don’t have a definitive answer for a solution but firearm owners need to unite and send a message to the governing body that this treatment can’t continue in the direction its going. Deal with the criminal element that is the problem and not the legal firearm owner who has put you in power.
What good this will do I don’t know but if nothing is done or tried I do know the end result.
Ed
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My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
