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Post by ed alger on Dec 18, 2014 16:37:16 GMT -5
I thought I'd post a few pictures and some thoughts about the Kokopelli Accurizing Kits. This tool is designed to help setup scopes on a rifle. I never thought much about this subject until I read some information from Dangun.  The 1" kit weighs about 5 lbs while the 30 mm kit weighs over 6 lbs!  The kit contains 2 aluminum bars, a lapping bar with handle, a 12" stainless true angle bar, and 280 grit compound, plus instructions.  With the measuring bars in place, the axis along the rings can be measured. This photo was taken after lapping the rings. Perfect.  A port is provided in one of the bars to access one of the base attaching bolts. It would be nice if both bars had this port.  One bar has a hole milled in one end to attach a 12" stainless angle indicator. The hole is precisely milled.  This image was taken on the original Leupold mount and ring setup. The Paper gauge is .008" thick. Besides the gap, there was a vertical offset which I could feel and see. The Leupold rings are set in the bases with dovetails. I thought these were good when I bought them but the Kokopelli tools showed me another story.  The lapping bar, with handle attached. the bar is heavy and true. It has a spiral groove cut the length which captures the grit compound. The instructions say to place a liberal amount of compound on the bar to begin. I was obedient and I found the grit/grease just piled up on the side of the rings although there was sufficient amount still on the bar. I believe a better way to charge the bar is to paint on the compound with an acid brush some 2 or 3 inches on one side of each ring. Saves a lot of mess and waste of the compound. It only takes 3 or 4 passes of the bar to true up the rings. Kokopelli warns not to grind too much. Use alcohol to clean up the the rings.  Warne ring after lapping. The high spot can be see here. The initial test with the alignment bars showed just a slight amount of offset. After lapping there was no offset of the bars.  This is a "Feel Good" test of the scope mounting system. The original Leupold mounts showed a clearly visible offset. Wish I would have taken a pic. The current price of the kits is about 20% higher than that on their website. The shipping was $19 flat rate. I thought the price was high until I saw the product. They are nicely machined and packaged. I give them 5 Stars. Ed.... |
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Post by hacker54 on Dec 19, 2014 0:37:57 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing this Ed. The price doesn't seem that bad even after adding the %20 to the web site price. Another goodie to put on the wish list. Maybe some day I'll have some tech goodies to play with. Can hope can I.
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457 
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 19, 2014 0:38:55 GMT -5
Ed, Thanks for showing this "kit".Does that angle indicator have some empirical way of showing angle or is it by eye ? I got the Sinclair "kit" and I didn't like the pointed ends even though they provide a good starting indication, I "squared" the other ends in a lathe now I have the best of both.
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Post by ed alger on Dec 19, 2014 9:59:29 GMT -5
Bob, the angle indicator is strictly by eye. The line could certainly be off a small amount but it's obvious when off just a little. When I first checked the Leupold mounts, before replacing with new Warne mounts, it was very obvious that the Leupold were not inline with the bore.
What amazed me was how close the hole in the bar was machined to accept the alignment rod! It is a fine slip fit.
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Post by krwada on Dec 23, 2014 18:16:29 GMT -5
Wow ... that Kokopeli system looks very nice.
Thanks for the review.
Now ... I think I need to get this system.
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 23, 2014 19:13:10 GMT -5
Ken, Don't you already have the Sinclair kit? All you realy have to do is have the beveled end,not the pointed end, cut off in a lathe so they are "square",at least that's what I did and it works fine.
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dangun
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Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Dec 24, 2014 1:17:48 GMT -5
Nice review Ed. I have both kits now, one is 1" and the other is 30mm. The sinclair kit I did as Bob and squared up the ends.
On my kit I cut a notch on the other bar so that I could access the scope mount screws at both ends. As far as the angle indicator goes it is more than helpful even though it is a visual and it isn't a precision instrument.
One that that Ed and the instruction mention is not to lap too much. It usually only takes a few strokes to get everything lined up.
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Post by ed alger on Dec 25, 2014 11:40:37 GMT -5
I received this note from Kokoprod regarding charging the lapping bar:
"You only apply a liberal amount the first time. After that almost nothing. You may have put too much on. You do need to coat the entire bar the first time, but just enough to know you have it everywhere is enough. After that only apply enough to be able to see it barely scraping off at the edge of the rings. If you apply more than that you will wear the lapping bar out very rapidly. It should last for about 75 laps."
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bob
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I'm too old to be nice but never too old to learn!
Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 25, 2014 13:48:37 GMT -5
Merry Christmas! Leuopold also says lap sparingly as you can quickly oversize the bore diameter of the rings and they won't clamp on the scope.
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Post by krwada on Dec 25, 2014 22:06:58 GMT -5
Ken, Don't you already have the Sinclair kit? All you realy have to do is have the beveled end,not the pointed end, cut off in a lathe so they are "square",at least that's what I did and it works fine. Hello Bob; Yes, I do have the Sinclair kit. I did not know about modifying it with a lathe. I will look into this. Thanks; Ken |
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bob
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Posts: 1,457
Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 26, 2014 0:24:22 GMT -5
Ken, you may be able to "square"the bars with your mill with the cross feed in the table.
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Post by ed alger on Dec 26, 2014 23:26:57 GMT -5
I've been informed that "The Kokopelli product is still under a valid US Patent and buying, selling, or modifying to produce a similar product or suggesting how to modify, is a violation of the US Patent laws."
I have posted this review of the Kokopelli product as information only and do not suggest or imply in any way that "other" kits can be modified to perform like the Kokopelli Scope Bars.
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bob
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Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 27, 2014 1:35:09 GMT -5
Ed, Not to worry I did my modification before I knew of Kokopelli! If push were to come about I will dig up my worn out alignment bar from 1963 made out of 1" dia. 6061 T6 Aluminum. The bars were,if memory serves, 12" for initial alignment and a shorter bar with one end of each turned "square" in my lathe. I made these as a lathe project and coincidentally used them on a scope mounting project. I used them twice then forgot about them until I got the Sinclair kit which is why I squared one end of each bar. Back then my mounts were Bueler one piece base mounts and were never off so until a few years ago I never thought twice about misalignment.
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dangun
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I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Dec 28, 2014 23:15:23 GMT -5
I think it is extremely short sighted of the owner of that company to tell you that Ed. I like many others modified my Sinclair kit long before I ever heard of that company. (I'm not mentioning that company name, people/companies like that don't deserve the endorsement) Does he really believe that these scare tactics are going to gain him any business? What I buy and then modify for my own use and tell my friends about it is my business. He, they, it can go fly a kite. It guess I should be worried that Apple is going to come after me for hacking my iphone and then telling friends how to hack theirs. Oh crap I guess Lee Precision , Dillon, RCBS and many others are going to come after me for modifying their patented products. SERIOUSLY?
I don't believe I'll be drinking his kool-aid anymore. Sorry Kool-Aid, I probably violated some BS regulation or Trade Mark on that rant!
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poohzilla
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Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
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Post by poohzilla on Dec 29, 2014 15:46:33 GMT -5
Ed, would you be able to share the communication you received ? I'd be interested to look at it. Thanks. Dan, I share your disappointment with the apparent tone of the communication.
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Post by ed alger on Dec 30, 2014 12:43:39 GMT -5
What John Werre said was pretty much as I posted above. The words Patent and Violation seem ominous, but John was cordial and just seemed to want to protect his product in which he has invested a lot of time and resource. IMHO
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bob
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Location: Northern California
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Post by bob on Dec 30, 2014 19:04:27 GMT -5
Ed How did John find out about our "patent infringement"is he a member or a lurker. In 1963 when I made my "copy" was his version available and patented? Just curious. I sure none of us intended to subvert his sales, to me it was giving a friend a way to modify a similar product to make it more useful just, as you did with the "run out gauge" you showed us.
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050
Location: New Hamster
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Post by poohzilla on Dec 30, 2014 20:36:41 GMT -5
Ed, thanks for the follow up. I found his patent, and I'm trying to make sense of it all. (If Mr. Were or his minions are listening in, I'm not looking to upset the apple cart. It just raises some interesting, and purely academic, issues.)
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gws
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Post by gws on Jan 1, 2015 0:41:50 GMT -5
Interesting.....when I created my H.M. case feeder for the RCBS Pro 2000 and posted it on AR15.com a few years ago, an RCBS R&D engineer I'm acquainted with (only through emails), emailed me with a kind compliment on how neat it was that I found a work-around the APS primer system and made the feeder work. I sure didn't get a threat....veiled or otherwise.
For every "one" who "copies" the Kokopelli product for themselves, there will be ten who aren't that handy and will buy the product because of the awareness and positive free advertising the "copy" information provides. His response does just the opposite.
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dangun
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I love the smell of burnt gun powder.
Posts: 517
Location: SW Florida
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Post by dangun on Jan 1, 2015 22:26:27 GMT -5
Greg, You said it better than I did but that's where is was going with the short sighted statement.
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My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
