poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050 
Location: New Hamster
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CFE
Jun 2, 2015 12:41:08 GMT -5
Post by poohzilla on Jun 2, 2015 12:41:08 GMT -5
Ok, today's toss-up question:
The (relatively) new CFE powder reportedly does a good job limiting copper buildup in bores. I assume that this is the result of some additive to the powder that does one of those Golly, Mr. Wizard chemical reactions. So far, so good. What is the effect on brass in which this stuff is fired, and if it has no effect, why ? I freely admit that chemistry is not my long suit.  |
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CFE
Jun 2, 2015 15:23:48 GMT -5
Post by krwada on Jun 2, 2015 15:23:48 GMT -5
OK ... I will take a stab at this one here since I am pretty much the resident chemist / material scientist. First of all, the substance in the CFE powder does not eliminate copper from the bore. It is a deterrent. That is, it keeps copper from building up in your bore. The CFE powder will have absolutely NO effect on a bore that is already fouled with copper. Being that the deterrent compound simply keeps copper from building up ... this means that the CFE compound should have no deleterious effects on anything made with copper, (copper jackets, brass etc). Copper build up in the bore is affected primarily in a fashion similar to the galling of metals. Galling usually occurs when you have a softer metal, (copper or lead) sliding with a very high lateral force with a harder material, (steel). Some of the known ways to reduce galling are as follows: 1. Lubrication, pre-conditioning a bore is known to reduce copper fouling 2. Coatings, for example, moly coated bullets are known to never copper foul a bore 3. Reducing friction using an additive or chemical compound. The CFE technology clearly appears to be some sort of trade secret. Since the Hodgdon Corporation plainly states The technology developed for the U.S. Military that greatly deters copper fouling is now available in CFE™223 for your reloads!This means the technology was developed for the US Military. Since the R&D costs were footed by the taxpayer, (you and me), this technology cannot be patented. The formulation however can be kept as a trade secret. I am most certain that, with enough searching through the various chemical ordinance abstracts ... one can come up with the exact chemical that is the magic behind the CFE technology. I am guessing that the 1st shot using the CFE technology actually leaves behind a coating in the metal pores of the bore which aids in reducing the galling of the copper against the steel. My guess, is that it is some high-lubricity dry coating technology that does not easily break down under high temperatures and pressures. I am guessing something along the lines of boron nitride, moly-sulphide and maybe a bit of graphite. You do not need much of this stuff to coat the bore. |
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mule
Member
Retired. Sales
Posts: 96
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CFE
Jun 2, 2015 17:30:58 GMT -5
Post by mule on Jun 2, 2015 17:30:58 GMT -5
Thanks Ken.
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050
Location: New Hamster
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CFE
Jun 3, 2015 6:48:41 GMT -5
Post by poohzilla on Jun 3, 2015 6:48:41 GMT -5
Ken, I posted a thank you for your response yesterday, but the computer gods apparently ate it. I appreciate your explanation of the chemical process.
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CFE
Nov 28, 2015 23:46:37 GMT -5
Post by hacker54 on Nov 28, 2015 23:46:37 GMT -5
This is sort of an update. This powder is the one my son-in-law chose to be used in his firearms. Since I'm the one doing the load developement and the shooting test and the other reason is that he want to stick with one powder for all his rifles. I have gotten good accurate loads in his S&W M&P 5.56/.223 and his Savage Axis in .308 Win. Have yet to try it in my daughter's Marlin in 30/30. He wants to use this in his Rock River in Rem. 6.8 SPC. there is no published data for this cal. so I'll have to contact Hodgdon to see if they can help with that. He has been doing quite a bit of shooting with the .308 with the loads I developed so when we got back from the range the other day I started to clean his rifle. Well using just good ole Hoppes #9 I had several and I mean several patches that had the bluish green color to them which meant that I was getting the copper fouling out. I haven't seen this much copper fouling with any other firearm cleaned when using other powders. I have and use Hoppes Benchrest P which is formulated to help get copper fouling out and don't get that much color on the patches as I did with this rifle using CFE 223 powder. I might have to give this powder a try or the new ones from IMR their Enduron series.
So question for your thoughts has anyone that has and used/uses this powder have similar results? Other words have you seen more color on the patch, they remain the same, or not at all, or haven't noticed?
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SnapShot
Member
Jeep & Mocha "Remembering Patches, always"
Posts: 699
Location: Finally free from the Republic of Kalifornia!
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CFE
Nov 30, 2015 11:52:40 GMT -5
Post by SnapShot on Nov 30, 2015 11:52:40 GMT -5
Everything I read about CFE223 and CFE-Pistol sounds great. However, I have had little to no luck in finding general load data.
Hope this catches on and more data becomes available soon.
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7mmmountaineer
Member
Time to face it I am a workaholic............
Posts: 521
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CFE
Nov 30, 2015 20:23:46 GMT -5
Post by 7mmmountaineer on Nov 30, 2015 20:23:46 GMT -5
Gary I like the new IMR powders I have used all 3 that are currently on the market. For the 7-08 with 140-150 class bullets both 4166 and 4551 have been pretty good in my limited testing with them in this caliber.
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CFE
Nov 30, 2015 21:32:52 GMT -5
Post by hacker54 on Nov 30, 2015 21:32:52 GMT -5
Chuck,
I might try the CFE223 and the IMR 4166 in 7mm-08 and 30/30 as Hodgdon has data for both. Right now I'm getting the single shot 30/30 dialed in using Hodgdon's Leverevolution powder.
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My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
