7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 9, 2015 18:14:17 GMT -5
Ok guys I got my rifle back from Hart on the third. As stated in another post I had breaking in rounds ready with 150 MK's. I also has a full run of 168 GK's and W760 and both LP and SP Lapua brass with 210M's and BR4's respectively. All loads were 5 shot groups so I had some data and a fair idea of the velocity (I would have preferred 10 shot strings) but made due with 5 shot strings. This is what I found.
CCI BR4 43.5gr 2520FPS SD 16 ES 24 GRP SIZE @100yds .995 43.8gr 2543FPS SD 17 ES 22 GRP SIZE @100yds .998 44.1gr 2566FPS SD 15 ES 20 GRP SIZE @100yds .902 44.4gr 2589FPS SD 14 ES 19 GRP SIZE @100yds .902 44.7gr 2612FPS SD 15 ES 21 GRP SIZE @100yds .996 45.0gr 2635FPS SD 12 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds .900 45.3gr 2658FPS SD 12 ES 19 GRP SIZE @100yds .900 45.6gr 2681FPS SD 13 ES 20 GRP SIZE @100yds .899 45.9gr 2704FPS SD 10 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds .880 46.2gr 2727FPS SD 11 ES 15 GRP SIZE @100yds .884 46.5gr 2750FPS SD 9 ES 13 GRP SIZE @100yds .722
At 46.5gr bolt lift took noticeably more effort not quite sticky but their was a difference.......
FED 210M 43.5gr 2512FPS SD 19 ES 26 GPR SIZE @100yds 1.025 43.8gr 2537FPS SD 18 ES 27 GPR SIZE @100yds 1.025 44.1gr 2562FPS SD 15 ES 21 GRP SIZE @100yds .998 44.4gr 2587FPS SD 14 ES 19 GRP SIZE @100yds .996 44.7gr 2612FPS SD 11 ES 17 GRP SIZE @100yds .854 45.0gr 2637FPS SD 21 ES 29 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.031 45.3gr 2662FPS SD 12 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds .873 45.6gr 2687FPS SD 10 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds .797 45.9gr 2712FPS SD 9 ES 12 GRP SIZE @100yds .710 46.2gr 2737FPS SD 10 ES 14 GRP SIZE @100yds .726 46.5gr 2762FPS SD 9 ES 13 GRP SIZE @100yds .710
I did not notice any difference in bolt lift at any point during this combo.....
AVE GRP SIZE CCI BR4'S .907 FED 210M'S .888..... The groups size was a little more uniform with the BR4's than with the 210M's. I think with some charge and seating depth tweaking I could get my SD and ES number even lower on some of these charges. That in turn would also reduce group sizes. Also this brass was being fire formed to this chamber so I think that might account for some of the odd numbers with the LP brass all in all it was quite a fun 3 day weekend. I have a couple other powders I want to try after I rerun this with fire formed brass.
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Post by hacker54 on Sept 9, 2015 22:55:35 GMT -5
Chuck,
This test is it for the LP brass or the SP brass?
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bob
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Post by bob on Sept 10, 2015 0:16:44 GMT -5
Interesting results Chuck. Looks to me as though primers are not all that important with regards to hunting accuracy or velocity. Thanks for the information.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 10, 2015 5:49:06 GMT -5
Gary this was more a test of the SP brass. I wanted to see how they worked in the 7-08, if they increased pressure and if so to what extent and also to see if they affected the numbers velocity, SD, ES, group size. They had a more even average group size that the LP brass did and more even SD and ES numbers. They did give up a very small amount of velocity toward the higher end of the charge weights which doesn't really matter all that much to me. I have a couple other powders I want to try this with as time goes on IMR 4350, 4551, 4064 and 4166 Hodgdon 100V and maybe even some RL19.
Bob I wouldn't really say that the barrel has 140 rounds through it and I was fire forming brass which I think more than likely affected the numbers I got. At some point in the next few weeks I will run this full cycle again and then compare the numbers side by side and see if their is a difference. I did clean the barrel between the SP run and the LP run and the weather was a little on the warm and humid side for this time of year here. Sunday SP conditions were TEMP 91 HUMIDITY 85% BAR PRESSURE 30.92 wind was the only non issue their was very little. Monday LP conditions were TEMP 94 HUMIDITY 77% BAR PRESSURE was unchanged same with the wind.
Like I said guys small sample size and now that my brass is fire formed I will rerun this powder and try a couple others. Also remember these are all 5 shot groups will they improve with some tweaking I hope so will they run true at longer distances again I hope so. Bench time both shooting and loading will tell this story but for now I am fairly happy with the choice I made. As a side note my chamber has a .306 neck brass with a seated bullet is .304. I did not have to turn my case necks. I will check my case necks concentricity and if need be even them out before I rerun this test. |
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bob
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Post by bob on Sept 10, 2015 8:47:11 GMT -5
Chuck, as a senior I expect some leeway, what caliber are these tests? All I had to do was open my eyes  |
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 10, 2015 14:00:22 GMT -5
Bob the rifle is in 7mm-08. The small primer brass started out as 308 Lapua I sized down and trimmed. The large primer brass is Lapua they added this caliber to their line up this year.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 16, 2015 8:28:50 GMT -5
Ok so I have the brass for this little experiment all cleaned annealed and prepped for another go round. I did check neck concentricity and found a few cases in both LP and SP that could use some slight cleaning up not many but a few with a more than .001 difference. I decided that the few I have like that are not worth the effort as I would then have to turn all my necks and since I am not going to be shooting this rifle for anything more than bragging rights and an occasional deer decided to just separate them for now.
I am going to load another go round for this weekend this time with H414 instead of W760. I have had a lot of luck with 414 in the 7-08 and despite the claim that they are the same powder they do perform differently in a firearm. So I will load a full cycle and compare those numbers side by side with my W760 numbers. After that I will rerun my W760 cycle and compare the second go round to the first go round.
After that I will work on a hunting load for my LP brass with 160gr Speer BTSP's as well as a load for my son and his newly traded for Winchester Mod 70 Feather Weight 243 I gave up my other 7-08 for it. It's going to be a busy next few weekends as well as a fun next few weekends.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 23, 2015 18:08:12 GMT -5
Ok so finished off another test cycle for this little experiment yesterday evening with H414 and this is what the number said.
CCI BR4 43.5GR 2516FPS SD 16 ES 24 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.001 43.8GR 2540FPS SD 17 ES 28 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.009 44.1GR 2564FPS SD 18 ES 24 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.014 44.4GR 2588FPS SD 14 ES 19 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.990 44.7GR 2612FPS SD 15 ES 21 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.996 45.0GR 2636FPS SD 13 ES 19 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.933 45.3GR 2660FPS SD 12 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.899 45.6GR 2684FPS SD 12 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.888 45.9GR 2708FPS SD 13 ES 18 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.903 46.2GR 2732FPS SD 10 ES 14 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.799 46.5GR 2756FPS SD 10 ES 13 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.794
FED 210M 43.5GR 2509FPS SD 19 ES 26 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.015 43.8GR 2536FPS SD 18 ES 24 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.009 44.1GR 2563FPS SD 16 ES 20 GRP SIZE @100yds 1.000 44.4GR 2590FPS SD 12 ES 18 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.900 44.7GR 2617FPS SD 12 ES 17 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.901 45.0GR 2644FPS SD 10 ES 15 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.854 45.3GR 2671FPS SD 11 ES 17 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.866 45.6GR 2698FPS SD 9 ES 14 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.800 45.9GR 2725FPS SD 11 ES 17 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.870 46.2GR 2752FPS SD 9 ES 15 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.800 46.5GR 2779FPS SD 10 ES 16 GRP SIZE @100yds 0.861
All groups were 5 shot groups. I had no bolt lift issues at all this round with my CCI BR4 primers. I shot the BR4's on Saturday with fair conditions partly cloudy, 66 degrees, wind was full value and steady @ 5mph, humidity was in the 40's, I did not get the barometric pressure. Sunday when I started the 210 half of this the conditions were almost a duplicate of Saturday with partly cloudy skies, 70 degrees, no wind to speak of, humidity in the 40's and again I did not get the barometric pressure.
Average groups size CCI BR4's .927 and 210M .898. Next I will rerun this with W760. Then maybe some IMR4350 or Hodgdon 100V who knows.
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gws
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Post by gws on Sept 24, 2015 9:58:33 GMT -5
Interesting stuff, thanks. If I'm not mistaken, the Federals are the only primers left still using Nitroglycerin in the mix. Makes them burn hot and more sensitive......and more dangerous of course. Most of the reloading accidents due to primers going off are associated with Federals. So that's another factor. I tend to be more sensitive too....to safety, anyway.  Yup, benchresters use mostly Federals for the hot burn & sensitivity, but the CCI bench rest primers aren't that far behind as you noted....but for benchresting...that may make the difference. .....for my progressive reloading I prefer the safety.. A since I don't compete in B.R., I've noticed no difference. Having never used CCI br4's, I'd be interested in knowing how the CCI br4's compare to the regular CCI's I do use. Another experiment another day, perhaps. |
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 24, 2015 18:17:10 GMT -5
Greg I am trying to find either some BR2's or some 205M's so I can run this with primers from the same company and more closely manufactured. BR2's have been spotty at best and I have not seen Fed 205M's in a while. I have thought about running this with CCI 200's and 400's both are just standard primers. Eh maybe a little later on I will but for now I am going to try a different powder IMR4350. |
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Sept 30, 2015 17:02:44 GMT -5
Greg your request for a CCI to CCI side by side will be done this coming week end. I am going to run a cycle with 200's and 400's under 160 Speer BTSP's with either H414 or RL19. You got me thinking about side by side standard test so it's next on the list. I do have a load for my son's rife a 100gr Speer Grand Slams over 40.3gr IMR 4350 with Winchester primers and Hornady brass. Shoots right at 1.250 inches at 100 YDS consistently I didn't chrono it but looking at the numbers it should be around 2800 from his short tube. On game performance we will see hopefully on 10/16 our youth day.
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bob
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Post by bob on Sept 30, 2015 19:13:53 GMT -5
Chuck, since you are experimenting try Br 2s against CCI 200s as that would seem more like apples to apples, or since I use both interchangeably you can take my unsophisticated approach and find little if any difference at least in the .257 Rob'ts with Hybrid 100 V. Your more credible approach might be interesting. Looking to try with H 414 in 7X57 mm with 140s.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Oct 1, 2015 17:00:11 GMT -5
Bob I currently do not have any BR2's or 205M's. My idea of apples to apples is match primer CCI BR4's to BR2's or Fed 210M's against 205M's. On the flip side I will do CCI 200's against 400's and if I can find them 210's against 205's or maybe Winchester WLR's against WSR's. |
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bob
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Post by bob on Oct 1, 2015 17:15:21 GMT -5
Sounds good Chuck! Look forward to the results.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Oct 2, 2015 16:39:41 GMT -5
Bob if it doesn't rain like it is supposed to this weekend I will run the 400's VS 200's with H414 and 160 Speer's. If we get all the rain they are predicting I will hold off till next weekend.
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Oct 7, 2015 19:39:10 GMT -5
I DO NOT RECOMMEND USING RAMSHOT HUNTER WITH LAPUA BRASS AT ALL!! LOADED MY 160 SPEER BTSP'S OVER HUNTER AND BOTH THE SP AND LP HAD STICKY BOLTS BY 46.5GR. BROKE OUT SOME OLDER HORNADY AND HAD NO ISSUES GETTING 48.5GR WITH LP'S... WAS NOT A FUN WEEK END LOL........
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bob
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Post by bob on Oct 7, 2015 21:56:21 GMT -5
It just goes to show ya, bye American! LoL Sorry that you had that issue but thanks for the heads up. Chuck, by chance did you weigh the Lapua and the Hornady brass to see what,if any, difference there might be?
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7mmmountaineer
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Post by 7mmmountaineer on Oct 8, 2015 17:01:04 GMT -5
Bob no I didn't but my guess is that the Lapua brass is heavier. I had this issue one other time with Remington brass.
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Yup, benchresters use mostly Federals for the hot burn & sensitivity, but the CCI bench rest primers aren't that far behind as you noted....but for benchresting...that may make the difference. .....for my progressive reloading I prefer the safety.. A since I don't compete in B.R., I've noticed no difference.
My daughter came from Missouri, my son and grand son, my wife and I had a nice dinner of grilled "porter house" pork chops, corn on the cobb, my son, G'son and I share 10/5. G'son is 4 minutes early though @ 10/4.
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
