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Post by isparky44 on Oct 26, 2015 12:50:37 GMT -5
So I bid on a Ruger Mini-Thirty 7.62x39 Distributor Exclusive (dressed in Mini-14 Tactical clothing, with a folding stock), and I won it. I now have the daunting task of tooling up the press (Dillon XL650) for this caliber. I am looking for advice on what are the best dies as Dillon Does not make them in house. I will be getting a full length set as well as a neck sizer, I am looking for input as to brand and style dies that every one prefers. I will be trimming the cases on my LE Wilson trimmer, and have all of the chamber head space, seating depth guages/tools, so I am thinking along the lines of a micrometer adjustable seating die, if advisable. Also what kind of crimp die would you set up with? There are so many choices out there, all claiming to be better than the rest. So any experienced input is what I am really looking for here. I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff only to turn around and have to sell it on E-bay because it only does part of the job, or i don't need it etc. I know a lot of this is personal preference, that is fine, input from you guys has been a big part of my decision making process in the past and has always guided me to the right choices. My gun is supposed to be chambered/rifled for .308, per Ruger. I see some product out there saying .309, .310, .311, adding to the confusion. I will assume that is Russian? Looking in my manuals I am finding loads up to 130 grain bullets. I also assume the heavier grain bullets(131gr. plus) out there are for other calibers, IE .308, 30/06 etc. Sorry, So many Questions.  |
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Post by hacker54 on Oct 26, 2015 15:16:43 GMT -5
Sparky,
As you know I use Lee reloading equipment. Their dies are very economically priced. I will suggest their Pacesetter Die Set. This is a three die set that includes both .308 and .311 expanders. The expanders are for the full length sizer die. The other two dies are the Dead Length Bullet Seater and the Factory Crimp Die. Since this is a semi and not a bolt gun I will give my opinion loading for a semi. I load for my son-in-law's AR's and I full length resize the brass as this will help with reliable cycling of the rounds through the gun. I also crimp in the cannelure so as to make sure the bullets don't work out or back into the case to cause problems. Now as per the .308/.311 confusion. The 7.62x39 is Russian being for the AK47 and they use a .311 dia. bullet as they did the 7.62x54R for the Mosin Nagant rifle. Also that diameter bullet is used in the 303 British and the 7.7 Jap. When Ruger brought out their Mini Thirty they went with a .308 dia bore for the barrel. I hope I was able to shed a little light on this subject for you and hope other will join in and give their opinions.
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poohzilla
Member
Give me a place to stand and a long-enough lever, and I will invariably break the lever.
Posts: 1,050 
Location: New Hamster
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Post by poohzilla on Oct 26, 2015 17:14:05 GMT -5
Hi Sparky- I think Hacker nailed it, although, being a raving paranoid, I'd slug the bore just to make sure, and check the twist (I couldn't resist...) I don't get the impression it's a very fussy cartridge. Have fun !
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mule
Member
Retired. Sales
Posts: 96
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Post by mule on Oct 26, 2015 19:15:28 GMT -5
I once owned an SKS and reloaded using the LEE die set Hacker described. The Chinese built gun I owned shot more accurately with .311 dia bullets than .308 dia bullets. Warning: a .308 bullet will fall into a case sized .311".
If you intend to hunt deer sized game, the Sierra .308" 125 gr HPFP, intended for 30 WCF, functioned well and thumped our Missouri Whitetails.
Accurate 2230 was my go to powder for 7.62 X 39.
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Post by hacker54 on Oct 26, 2015 20:58:00 GMT -5
Sparky, I have done some searching and found as I stated earlier that they (Ruger) had started with a .308 bore for their barrels as here in the USA we have an abundant weights in that bullet. I did find at some point in time that they switched to a .311 bore around the early 90's. Here is a link from Brownells that should help you out. So you should check out when your's was manufactured and go from there. www.brownells.com/GunTech/Ruger-Mini-30-bore-specs/detail.htm?lid=15904 |
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Post by isparky44 on Oct 26, 2015 22:02:33 GMT -5
Gary, Pooh, & Mule, thanks for the advice. The gun is NIB never fired, 2015 production per the S.N. I swear I read somewhere just the opposite on the bore Diameter. Midway maybe? Or on 2nd thought one or more of my reloading guides, I will read them again (all 5), and if all else fails, learn the fine art of slugging the bore. Thanks for the link Gary! Ruger is unsurpassed by no one with their customer service. There was a small scratch in the bolt lock lever cover, and a screw missing from the front picatinny rail, they sent me a whole new rail kit(all hardware and tube of locktite) and cover immediately, turns out the kit they sent is the cutout rail/scope mount, so I now have two. I called back to get the nut and screw I needed, even though they did not do the "upfit" to my gun (Davidsons exclusive), a nut and screw were also sent. They have a super team over there, and if they cant answer my question, they get someone who can on the phone with us immediately. So I will be calling the tomorrow and get a direct answer on the diameter, I know it wont be a problem. I asked Ruger if they had tours of their plant(s)< they said NOBODY gets to tour the plants, Bummer. So am I understanding that even if the barrel is .308 that it will digest .311 safely, and possibly more accurately as well? I know that I will be pulling a couple factory cartridges down and put the caliper to the bullets just to satisfy my own curiosity. I really didn't need this gun, but I couldn't justify seeing it go for $575.00 so I bid six bucks more just for giggles, and here I am! Good thing its a Ruger! So if I understand correctly, I don't need to fuss with the Micrometer seater die? I still think it prudent to get a neck sizer, to use after fire forming my brass, though.  Thanks Again! |
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SnapShot
Member
Jeep & Mocha "Remembering Patches, always"
Posts: 699
Location: Finally free from the Republic of Kalifornia!
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Post by SnapShot on Oct 27, 2015 14:02:26 GMT -5
Sparky ~ You’re right about Ruger’s customer service; they have always been great. Just wanted to share a short story about their "plant tours". A few years back I invested in a few thousand dollars of Ruger Stock. Then I tried to get a tour because I was a "share holder". Long story short . . . Nobody gets plant tours! As a side note, keep buying Ruger . . I still own the stock  ~ SnapShot (Larry) |
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mule
Member
Retired. Sales
Posts: 96
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Post by mule on Oct 27, 2015 19:43:30 GMT -5
SnapShot,
I own a small piece of Ruger also.
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Post by isparky44 on Oct 27, 2015 21:49:57 GMT -5
I probably should look into the stock also, there are only 2 guns in my safe that are not Ruger! My Grandpa's 1908 H&R in .32 and a Windham Weaponry SRC in 5.56x45.
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Post by isparky44 on Jan 16, 2016 19:17:06 GMT -5
Just setting up, my Lee pacesetter dies and doing a few dummy cases for length etc. Lee's guide says trim to length should be 1.518" my lee quicky trimmer, with the "quill" and ball actually takes them down to 1.511". It is supposed to be "perfect" trim length for this cartridge per Lee. Also my Lyman guide says 2.200" COAL for a 125 gr. jsp bullet but the pamphlet that came with the dies is all over the board depending on what powder is used, 2.063" to 2.165" my thoughts on this are how far the bullet is into the chamber throat, not what brand of powder I am using. I got a pretty good Idea what to do and what not to do, just looking for some input to back up my thoughts and theories here. Help and advice please?
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Post by hacker54 on Jan 16, 2016 23:45:37 GMT -5
Sparky,
You didn't say for what bullet that you will be using. Most of the .311 dia. bullets for this round have a cannelure so crimp in the grove and you should be fine with COL but always check with your calipers.
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Post by isparky44 on Jan 18, 2016 0:18:07 GMT -5
Sorry Gary, .310 dia. Its hard to find anything in .311 that isnt too heavy only my lyman guide shows anything over 125 gr. And yes my bullets do have a cannalure and fall into place, directly. I eneded up Breaking in the LE Wilson case trimmer tonight, mighty fine, brief setup and brass shavings were a flying. It stayed right on @ 1.518 +/- .0005, cant ask for any better than that! Question, are you running progressive for your rifle loads? I am seriously thinking of getting a free standing powder measure and running single stage for this and my AR platforms, just because of the amount of "prep" work I have already completed. Basically I have already done the size/deprime/trim part, I have a hand primer, and trays, etc. that leaves 3 of 5 stations on my Dillon 650 (prime,((if I so choose))powder drop, seat, crimp). Just lubing the cases for sizing kinda takes the progressive idea and throws it out the window. It also looks as though some of the loads I will be working up will be close to, if not, compressed. So additional caution can be used by going single stage.  |
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Post by hacker54 on Jan 18, 2016 0:38:22 GMT -5
Sparky,
For my son-in-law's AR in 5.56/.223 I used my single stage. Tried four different powders to see what load was the most accurate and settled on CFE223. I will be rebuilding a shell plate carrier for my Lee Pro1000 to do these rounds. We need to add a couple of items to handle powder drops and we should be able to do these on the progressive. As with most of my handgun rounds done on this press the brass will be hand primed ahead of time. I think your approach to using a single stage for your rounds is right since you did state that the load will or could be compressed loads. I have a question have you already tried different powders to see what load was the most accurate? Even if they are only plinking rounds I would want mine to be as accurate as I can get them and this is my own opinion.
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Post by isparky44 on Jan 18, 2016 15:58:44 GMT -5
Gary, I will definitely let you know...come spring! Its so cold up here right the ammo is jumping out of the magazines and running back up to the barn! Seriously though I missed the last 2 gun shows, because of weather, so my powder choices (on hand) are limited to; BLC(2), CFE223, and H322, maybe a few other odd lots. I hope to have better weather for the next show so I can stock up.
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Post by isparky44 on Apr 18, 2016 21:52:00 GMT -5
What a great weekend to FINALLY sight in the New Mini 30! Sunday the Mrs. fled to the casino and left me on my own!  I spent a little time working up some loads this winter, and have been waiting for a good day to set up the Oehler 35p chrony and test them all out. Chrony, Gun, and loads. The scope i put on it had not been zeroed yet, so I cannot attest to the accuracy of my loads, as I dialed it it while testing the loads. Most of my books are somewhat conservative so I dont believe I am quite there yet, power wise, still have a little tweaking to do. I ran tests on 4 different powders Hodgdon H4198, BL-C(2), H322, and Alliant Power Pro 1200R. All were pretty good, at the higher end, note that I did NOT take any to the MAX Load yet, as the rifle is/was still brand new and I wanted to break it in gently. The Cronograph is new to me, and performed flawlessly, as did the rifle! I read a lot of reviews about chronys not liking direct sunlight or power lines. I had an abundance of both, I have a 6KV main feed to our city running paralell to my range. I can say that the Oehler was worth the extra money! out of a string of 100 shots it did not miss a single one! It is by far the easiest to use, once set up too, 2 buttons do every thing I need, and it prints each shot as you go, then you print a summary of the string for record keeping. The summary is clear and concise, and includes the high, low, average, ES, And SD, all figured out for you. Gary I left you a PM. |
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Post by isparky44 on Nov 6, 2016 18:48:21 GMT -5
Did some more testing tonight without the chrony, with some loads I wanted to test just a little warmer. I set up with BL-C(2) at 31.0 and 31.5 grains. As I was picking up my brass between each 5 shot string I noticed that I was getting Dents/dimples in the brass, lots of them. Looking into the chamber I see lots of un-burned powder flakes especially bad with the 31.5gr loads, also my groups were beginning to spread out. Both of these loads are compressed, so I assume this is some of the problem. It is such a shame because the 31.0 gr load is turning out to be super accurate. Is it possible because the Mini-30 has a shorter barrel causing some of this as well? Maybe the primers? Using Winchester Standard Small Rifle Primers. Would a CCI Magnum primer help? I don't want to have to clean out the chamber every five shots, but still want to use the 31.0 gr load if possible. I had made up some 30.5 gr loads too but ran out of daylight, stupid time change.
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Post by hacker54 on Nov 6, 2016 21:44:18 GMT -5
Sparky,
First off I agree with your comment "stupid time change" it is a PITA. Have you tried other powders as of yet for this? If so how was the powder burn as compared to the BL-C 2? Any unburnt powder left in the chamber area? Are you using a Lee factory crimp die? If so you might try a tad firmer crimp that can help with your un burnt powder issue. Barrel length does play into the powder burn but since you have it in the chamber area I an thinking a tad more crimp will help with this.
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Post by isparky44 on Nov 7, 2016 10:55:05 GMT -5
Gary, I worked up loads with 4 different powders, and tested all with the Chrony back in May. BL-C(2), 1200R, H322, and H4198, Listed best to worst in my opinion, from the May testing. I did not notice the powder issue back in May, not saying it wasn't there, as I was in a bit of a hurry. Yes I am using the FC die, with a "moderate crimp. These Loads are pretty heavily compressed, and running just over 2,000 FPS. The Power Pro 1200R runs just shy of 2,300 FPS, just coming in to being compressed, and is also pretty accurate. I am going to try that this afternoon If time permits.
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Post by isparky44 on Nov 7, 2016 11:56:18 GMT -5
Gary, I just went and checked the brass from the May test, and yes there is evidence of the same problem, only on the BL-C(2) brass. I am pretty sure I ran that in the last part of the test session, and did not notice the problem as I had a pending tow call and was trying to "rush through". Also I made an errant statement above about the primers, They are Winchester LARGE rifle, not small. The more I think about this the more I am inclined to believe it is a compressed load issue. They are not compressed so much that the cases are bulging, but they are compressed more than what I think they should be. Again I hope to run some further testing with the 1200R this afternoon, I will let you know.
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Thanks Again!
I spent a little time working up some loads this winter, and have been waiting for a good day to set up the Oehler 35p chrony and test them all out. Chrony, Gun, and loads. The scope i put on it had not been zeroed yet, so I cannot attest to the accuracy of my loads, as I dialed it it while testing the loads. Most of my books are somewhat conservative so I dont believe I am quite there yet, power wise, still have a little tweaking to do. I ran tests on 4 different powders Hodgdon H4198, BL-C(2), H322, and Alliant Power Pro 1200R. All were pretty good, at the higher end, note that I did NOT take any to the MAX Load yet, as the rifle is/was still brand new and I wanted to break it in gently. The Cronograph is new to me, and performed flawlessly, as did the rifle! I read a lot of reviews about chronys not liking direct sunlight or power lines. I had an abundance of both, I have a 6KV main feed to our city running paralell to my range. I can say that the Oehler was worth the extra money! out of a string of 100 shots it did not miss a single one! It is by far the easiest to use, once set up too, 2 buttons do every thing I need, and it prints each shot as you go, then you print a summary of the string for record keeping. The summary is clear and concise, and includes the high, low, average, ES, And SD, all figured out for you. 
Pooh I hope you find to right house . 
